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Psychadelic Seikos

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quietman

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Psychadelic Seikos

Post02 Dec 2011, 21:06

I've seen quite a few old Seikos for sale recently with red/pink/green coloured patches on the LCD screens. Is this damage to the LC or to the polariser? I'm familiar with gradual fading of polarisers with UV (I think) exposure from sunlight. The 'stains' usually seem to be in the middle of the screen rather than the edge so I guess its going to be driven by heat/sun exposure rather than seal failure round the edges? Is it peculiar to old Seiko construction techniques or is it just chance that they're the ones that are showing up for sale?

Please can someone more learned enlighten me :?:

Rgds,

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Old Tom

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Post03 Dec 2011, 10:38

Anisochromic failure- the carrier plastic in the polarisers rotates the plane different wavelengths of light by varying amounts so as the actual polarising chemical in the plastic is destroyed by UV this effect becomes visible (normally swamped by the darkness of the polariser). You see bands or circles depending on the construction of the panel and the viewing angle (it needs the tiniest variation in viewing angle to shirt the perceived colour).

Simple cure is to remove old polarisers and fit new ones, or if you are being really lazy (and space permits) simply lie the new ones over the old (but make sure you line the polaristion correctly!).
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Post03 Dec 2011, 13:21

Interesting - always nice to understand what's going on.

And it sounds like they could be repairable too which opens up a whole lot more junk as potential 'projects' :-D - I've been looking at 'getting into' Seiko but am finding the prices a little steep compared to other lesser brands. Even later models or broken ones seem to attract generous money :cry: .

I've done the front/back polarisers on a cheapo Solar LCD - no problems. And I've played with polarisers on old LCD clocks - found the adhesive to be so strong as to make clean repair impossible.

It sounds like these old 70s Seikos can be done (I know there's a risk when messing with these kind of bits.....) - one concern would be the silk screen/legend on the front - I assume it is generally printed direct onto the front glass layer BELOW the front polariser and that as long as the adhesive isn't superhuman then the legend will survive the transplant - any experience with this?

Rgds,

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Adam

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Post03 Dec 2011, 19:02

Quietman
I use a hairdryer to soften up the film this helps a lot. On the Seikos I have done the graphics are usually on the back polarising filter sometimes if you are lucky only the front needs changing.

regards

Adam
http://www.digital-watch.com - online database of 2000+ watches, manuals and adverts from the 70s-90s
http://www.vintagelcd.com - Vintage Digital Watches for sale
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quietman

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Post07 Dec 2011, 00:47

Just to close the loop on this one I got a broken 1977 Seiko M154-4019 with a 'blushing' LCD display. Took the front polariser off first which was really thick - possibly over 0.5mm. The glue wasn't very strong but because the film was so stiff I used a knife to gradually 'lever' it off. The back polariser was way gone too. It was much thinner than the front film but with a stronger adhesive. And the display legend was printed on the glass face that it was attached to. I peeled it off OK and managed to slowly get the remains of the adhesive off the glass without damaging the printing.

New polarisers, fixed the rest of the watch, etc. etc. So I got my cheap Seiko, nothing special but seems nice to me. And yes the internal build quality is really a cut above the other LC watches I've attacked to date. Particularly nice delicate little PCB at the core of the whole thing :-)

Thanks for all of the info.
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james_stan

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Post07 Dec 2011, 23:55

Hi

I'm curious, what else was wrong with it ? I have a not very pretty
77 vintage seiko I was thinking of attacking again soon..

Cheers

JS
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Post08 Dec 2011, 04:33

Not a whole lot ....

Simple battery leakage which in this case was kind of awkward to clean. You have a fragile little PCB sitting in the middle of it all and then on the back of this is a plastic chassis with all of the 'tracks', switch contacts and so on moulded onto it....so you get all sorts of gunk underneath the 'tracks' which you can't easily get too because they're kind of riveted down. I'm not a vinegar bath person....toothpicks, fibreglass brush, clean water and solvent cleaner (TCE/Alcohol/etc) ..... so it took a while to get everything out.

There was also a minor issue with the keyless works - these old Seikos have a setting button which pulls out much like the crown on a mechanical watch. Irritatingly fiddly to get everything in the right place once its been unhinged. If you have access to the tech manual (mine was on DWL) then this is obviously a whole lot easier.

One pusher was seized. Oh how I hate crawling round on my kitchen floor looking for microminiature c-clips and springs......
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Seiko Kid

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Post08 Dec 2011, 10:28

I agrees that the m series are an absolute pain to work on, nice little design but, ugh!

the setting lever is easily bent

Queitman- how do you remove the remaining glue from the LCD without damaging the print?
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Post08 Dec 2011, 14:54

Removing the adhesive is one of those real go slow, hold your breath jobs.

I do a bit of work on mechanical watches and its not unlike cleaning up dials on mechanical watches - one false move and you're a letter or two down.

I used a wet toothpick for most of it. Start on the areas where theres's no printing - you can use pressure here as the wet wood won't scratch the glass. Then eventually you end up with just a little adhesive clinging to the actual days of the week in the middle of the glass.

Other tips I have for this bit are -

1/ Use a loupe and go around the letters first. This gets most of it. Don't be afraid to sharpen, point or 'wedge' your pick to get the right shape for a particular glob of adhesive.

2/ Go over the letters where necessary in line with the lettering. Any pressure across the line of the printing is more likely to dislodge it than if you run up along the line of the print.

3/ KNOW WHEN TO STOP!!!! If there's a particualrly stubborn little glob then perhaps you should just leave it. Its hard to do this until you've ruined a couple of dials through being overzealous. I got everything off this one but was definitely into 'perhaps I should just leave it now territory before I had got it all..... For these Seiko glasses remember that you are cleaning the back side polariser. If you put a new self-adhesive polariser on the back side (recommended as they are about the right thickness and you won't have to 'shim' the stack to get your zebra strips lined up....) then a little bit of adhesive can be accomodated by the new film and at worst may just look like a feint shadow on the rear reflector in use. Similar little bits of old adhesive on the front will be obvious and at best cause the diaplay to blur.

I got the impression that the paint was pretty well stuck to the glass but you just don't know until a piece comes off. I've had beautiful mechanical dials shed lettering with not much more than looking at them so I'm perhaps overly cautious with this.

One cleaned off I roll over it with a damp cotton bud a few times (means you can apply a little pressure without dragging accross the lettering) Dry cottonbud a few times to dry it off. Wipe and dab with Rodico. Then dry cotton bud to clear any remaining streaks. Blow for lint and then assemble.

Don't use any solvents on the thing. Clean water is fine.

Hold it only by the (long) outside edges that the contacts are printed next to - the short outside edges have hard seals on the glass-glass interface that if damaged will blead the LC.

;-)
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Seiko Kid

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Post08 Dec 2011, 15:05

phew!

i only really replace the front filter and slide a craft knife under it which can either leave you with a load of glue left or non at all.

then I use a q tip and alcohol to wipe it clean. the back I normally leave and was wondering whether placing a fresh filter over the top of the old one will do the trick.

I have wiped the numbers clean before now. thanks for your tips on cleaning the back, I will put those to practice when I really need to work on one, probably a m354 as they are not that common to find.

surprising how tough these little LCD screens actually are
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Post08 Dec 2011, 16:19

I did a little experimenting whilst doing this one and for my sample size of, er, one placing a 'shunt' film over the failed one didn't do anything for the chromatic abherrations. And on mine doing the front film only didn't make much diffrerence to the cosmic-colouring.

If you think about it, the polariser break down is effectively causing different wavelengths of light to be re/de-fracted in different directions - so leading to the shifting rainbow effect when viewed from different angles. The only way to correct that with a shunt film is to get one that precisely bends each wavelength of light back at the appropriate incident angles. I can just about conceive of something that would do it but it ain't a polarising filter and it probably isn't practically manufacturable!

A shunt film should work well when the polariser breakdown leads to a uniform (wrt wavelength) darkening or lightening. But not, I fear for those Psychadelic Seikos. :-)
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Post08 Dec 2011, 23:08

I've not dabbled with the polarisers and most likely never will but I'm still a bit curious.
Is the 'back' polariser you refer to underneath the LCD glass ? probably a daft question, sorry.. :oops:

JS
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Seiko Kid

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Post08 Dec 2011, 23:16

yes
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simone

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Post19 Jan 2012, 12:02

Can anyone tell me where I can find the polarizer?In optic store? I'd like to repaire my Seiko "rainbow model"....
The polarizers are all equal in Seiko watches?I'm very confuse...It's the first time for me...
Anyone can send me a pics of the structure of a LCD panel (from Zanoni watch repair or other)?
Anyone can follow me step by step?
thanks.....
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Kasper

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Post19 Jan 2012, 13:30

Time to do some reading :-D
you can find all the answers all over the forum.

http://www.3dlens.com/shop/lcdpolarizer.php
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simone

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Post21 Jan 2012, 17:13

Finally I made it! the work is not professional, but the result is good.One day full of (hard) work to re-born my seiko display!No more rainbow!!!!!!I use a lens from a 3d glass for tv.... :lol:
This is my first work.....i hope you like it....

Image

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BEFORE (my god ...jimi hendrix's watch!)

Image

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AND AFTER...... :eek:

Image

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Kasper

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Post21 Jan 2012, 17:23

did you try to turn the lens 90 degree so that the black digits become white and the white background black and recto verso?

thats a cool effect.

but nevertheless...nice job..congrats.

now you have to clean up the case and the glass and an oldy is reborn,
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simone

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Post21 Jan 2012, 17:33

Thanks kasper....yes I try but i prefer the classic lcd version ah ah ah....
These watches are incredible!Long life Seiko
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simone

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Post21 Jan 2012, 20:22

Now I'd like to fix the lcd of my seiko 0634-5009....is very blur.... :cry:

PS First of all thanks to everyone of the forum for the precious advices!!

:lol: :lol:
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Re: Psychadelic Seikos

Post23 Jan 2012, 19:43

Excellent work Simone- it looks great. :-D
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simone

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Re: Psychadelic Seikos

Post24 Jan 2012, 00:34

And now seiko 0634-5009...

BEFORE

IMG_0936.JPG


OPENING

IMG_0939.JPG



NOW (the display appear more dark and the digit also...not a miracle but good)

IMG_0945.JPG
Last edited by simone on 24 Jan 2012, 00:47, edited 1 time in total.
Some watches are made to last only as long as they are fashionable
Some watches, simply are not made to last
Seiko watches are designed to withstand the ravages of both time and fashion
Someday perhaps, all watches will be made this way
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simone

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Re: Psychadelic Seikos

Post24 Jan 2012, 00:37

Oh my god...caos with the upload images...the order is wrong! :oops:
Some watches are made to last only as long as they are fashionable
Some watches, simply are not made to last
Seiko watches are designed to withstand the ravages of both time and fashion
Someday perhaps, all watches will be made this way
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